New Episode Discussions Post

[the_fairest]

April 22, 2012
Once Upon a Time Episode 2.19
"The Return"

OhMyGods. Who out there is not HAVING ALL THE FEELS?






[Remember to change the subject title if you comment with spoilers, in case people don't want to know.]

Comments

Ongoing Storybrooke Plot

[the_fairest]

Anything you thought bad or good about the Storybrooke plot line! (Emma! Mary Margaret & David! August! Henry! Mother Superior! Archie! Mr. Gold, Mr. Glass & Regina! Just to name a few examples.)

Re: Ongoing Storybrooke Plot

[itrunsinthefamily]

Oh maaaaaan how much did I call Kathryn being alive? This much. Now go talk to the gym teacher, honey, you two just might hit it off!
Also, I don't want to feel sorry for Sidney, but even I could tell he was lying, and it would have been obvious even if I'd somehow overlooked all the 'REGINA DID IT' moments.

Re: Ongoing Storybrooke Plot

[bright_daughter]

Totally the wrong journal, but what the hey:

This whole Emma's "super power" being quite defeated thing has been troubling me. I mean, we're supposedly to believe that she can tell when other people are lying. But Sidney Glass was standing in front of her being a turn coat for a really long time before she figured it out.

And there was someone else who did this, too, though now it's skipping my mind. Mostly the Sidney one made me frown a little. But I agree, this one was so obvious it was painful. The man couldn't even stand straight, talk straight or look straight at Emma.



And that painful awkward conversation silence after "Are you in love with her?"
That man needs serious help and a whole lot of damn hugging.

Re: Ongoing Storybrooke Plot

[ahuntsman]

Haha, I was going to make a comment about the whole 'lying power' too!

I just don't know why/how Emma could suddenly have ~lost~ this ability to tell when people are lying! Sidney, August, Jefferson ... idk.

Mmmmmaaaybe it has something to do with the Curse and its effects on people, like a darker deeper magic is at work that ~clouds~ Emma's judgment and ability or something? I'd really like to think the writers were not simply lazy on having something that was mentioned several times earlier in the season suddenly stop ... happening.

Kathryn

[the_fairest]

I'm still going with what I said the first time I saw the sneak peek clip of the David & Kathryn Scene: WHY ISN'T SOMEONE APPING MAH GIRL KATHRYN? She's made of glorious beauty and grace in a hospital bed even.

I actually liked the David & Kathryn scene quite a lot. That it started with apologies, and a both the acknowledgement of them and the setting aside of them, because everyone actually felt like they didn't belong. I like that there is a an of intimacy there, sad and distant and not, the way you almost can't avoid being with an ex.

I need her to go find her gym teacher and be happy.

(Even if, yes, I understand that is ridic impossible in Storybrooke's Curse.)





Also. I want to know what basement she was kept in where. As much as I first wanted her to be in the same hospital basement, she can't have been there if it had to do with Gold freeing Kathryn. But you know, allll the things we don't know. All we know is car crash, basement, food, and bam a field.

I wwwwaaannttt to know. I want a Kathryn. She's so awesome.

Plus, somehow somewhere somewhen her letter needs to come up.

Mary Margaret & Emma, Mary Margaret & David, Emma (-Mary Margaret)

[the_fairest]

I. These two in the party! All of it just cements how very firm their foundation is. Emma being supportive about her having friends, and Mary Margaret actually being entirely honest about her feelings of being alone the day before.

And their silent conversations across the room, across the party, about David, that is mostly moving mouths and making faces? Priceless. I love them. I love them so much. They are an actually moving and working a solidified, solid, single unit since that choice at the end of "Hat Trick."

(And even? Her look of apologetic, sympathy for David's obvious plight, but her very to the point, very hestitationless loyalty to MM and MM's right to make that choice and be backed up instantly, especially in all things David now.)



II. Oh, Mary Margaret, you find new ways to steal my heart, every time I think you're done doing it. There are so many more markers of Snow in how she keeps walking away from David and her voice is demanding, unrelenting, honest.

And then everything she said to him. About how he wasn't there. (And adversely, when the world fell away, the only person who was there in the end, was Emma in the end of "Hat Trick" telling her to pick faith, which got us to I)

I felt my tiny heart break for her, and at the same time I wanted to applaud her. Because she's not allowing him to dictate it anymore, not the same ways she did in the beginning. Choosing to say that love is the reason that makes all of this sad, and choosing to keep Leroy's words: About not letting the present tarnish her best memories.

I have so many FEELS about this whole conversation. I respect the hell out of her, and her doing this. Forgiving him, but not forgetting, not being willing to move forward, not being willing to let it ruin her memories, completely willing to acknowledge she understands. And how none of that requires her to do anything else.

(....I just need to know how they get put back together now, too. Please, show? Please?)




III. Emma's scene at the end of the show with Regina. I totally gasped when she used the whole 'you tried to take someone I love' (/almost took Mary Margaret from her for) now I'm taking both of the people I consider family out of your grasp for good.

Oh, Girls. (Oh, the three generations of this family.)

(Laura. Laura. We moved from Family to Love. *flailiest hands*)

Re: Mary Margaret & Emma, Mary Margaret & David, Emma (-Mary Margaret)

[ahuntsman]

Oh, Mary Margaret, you find new ways to steal my heart, every time I think you're done doing it. There are so many more markers of Snow in how she keeps walking away from David and her voice is demanding, unrelenting, honest.

THIS.

I turned to my friend during this scene and was like, "OH MAN. I LOVE HOW SHE IS NOT TAKING CRAP FROM DAVID RIGHT NOW."

MM is such a tiny little badass; it's so refreshing to see her break out of that timid shell, getting little glimpses of Snow White.

Re: Mary Margaret & Emma, Mary Margaret & David, Emma (-Mary Margaret)

[ahuntsman]

But also: AUGH. MM and David kill me. Every scene they have. David's ~manly tears~ - all of it just. Kills. Me.

Re: Mary Margaret & Emma, Mary Margaret & David, Emma (-Mary Margaret)

[the_fairest]

Yes. I may have made a squeally noise out loud during it when I had that thought. I'm beginning to wonder if more parts of her character traits are being to show through because of Emma.

Because of both of them choosing each other. Emma, not wavering, in being there for her from the moment the fingerprints came in in Heart of Darkness. Mary Margaret at the end of Hat Trick. Because I think the choosing and, especially Emma choosing things changes everything in this show.

And now Emma's gone from "Hat Trick" where she called Mary Margaret "Family" on accident to this one where she calls her "someone I love" straight and pissed to Regina's face. That's a whole lot of Emma going this is my person.


So we sshhhalll see.

The Sheriff's Office

[the_fairest]

Why are there things on the other desks in the office (like a secretary's desk, or the old deputy's desk) if there is absolutely no one else working here that is not Emma? Why does it never seem odd to Emma to be one of two people working in the Sheriff's department, and then one of one? Etc. Things. Details I'm supposed to avoid and can't.

Re: The Sheriff's Office

[ahuntsman]

AS THE PLAYER OF GRAHAM, I WONDERED THIS FROM THE BEGINNING.

I doooon't really get how the Sheriff's office, which extends even beyond the jail-cell and small space + office we get to see, is only employed by one Graham before Emma shows up, and now only Emma.

Weeeeird.

Re: The Sheriff's Office

[the_fairest]

Aaagggreeed.

I keep looking at all the things.


And Regina sitting on that desk, waiting.

[thingsdoneproperly]

IT'S VERY WEIRD!

And we had Geppetto in the office in the pilot, I thought he was somehow connected? And then we never see him in there again.

Shooooooooooooow. There are...you know, guards from various palaces who could be in there, other people!

August & Mr. Gold

[the_fairest]

Gotta be honest. That was not how I expected any of those scenes to go.
I may be rewatching it a few times just to figure out my feelings here.

Re: August & Mr. Gold

[stillsmallvoice]

I am still shaking. AND NOW I NEED TO KNOW WHO AUGUST IS. *flail*

Re: August & Mr. Gold

[stillsmallvoice]

Seriously, I'm pretty sure this whole ep existed to make me want to cuddle Mr. Gold. Like, seriously cuddle him.

Therapy, plz?

Re: August & Mr. Gold

[the_fairest]

All the cuddlings. All of them. With sprinkles on top.

Re: August & Mr. Gold

[ahuntsman]

Watching Mr Gold BROKE MY FLIPPIN' HEART.

You know, just when I thought MM and David didn't already crush it Regina-style.

Re: August & Mr. Gold

[the_fairest]

There were tears! And hugs! And you were always rights! I cannot even think of that part of the episode without my heart flailing ALL THE FLAILS.

Re: New Characters This Week

[just_a_cup]

We, also, wrapped back to early Storybrooke in this and cleared up the early show occurrence of Mr. Gold, with shovel, (and his immaculately clean apron, over his very nice suit) when he told Graham he been doing "A spot of gardening" in the woods.

Now we know he was burying the dagger.

Archie & Mr. Gold

[the_fairest]

As a last thought, before I drop off and hit the hay for tonight, I really liked the Archie & Mr. Gold scene, or more aptly I was really, really in love with Archie and Archie being Jiminy even for Mr. Gold.

Handling the whole surprise of him being there, needing to talk to someone, having a son, and a son who wanted to kill him at that, and still hearing him out, intuiting the need for forgiveness (even if he gets the direction of it wrong).

"You have to be honest." My heart grew three sizes and I smiled my tiny smile. God. I love this show to itty bitty pieces and I can't stop rambling comments tonight.

Re: Archie & Mr. Gold

[stillsmallvoice]

*flail* Yes! That scene! GAH

So much in that moment for him, you can really see his character coming into his own - pulling it together and letting his personal distaste and distrust of Gold go in favor of *helping* someone who needs it.

So much feeling. So much.

Emma vs Regina over Henry

[thingsdoneproperly]

Iiiiii am not liking the heading towards a custody battle over Henry so much.

For a lot of this season, I've been mentally going "please don't take Regina's child away, please don't take her son away from her". Partly it's because she's lost so much(which...drove her evil in the first place), and partly because we've seen what she did when she lost her boyfriend (hi, Daniel-in-the-fridge) - what exactly is she going to do over the loss of her child?

And I really didn't like how Emma said it, either. It seemed to come from a distinctly 'tit for tat' place, rather than a genuine concern over Henry's safety and well-being. And after she did that whole big thing about not stooping down to Regina's level, she's gone and lost her temper and is...stooping down to Regina's level. And I am left distinctly -_- Particularly as I'm not sure I trust the writers to handle the whole thing well.

And Regina does love Henry, as much as she can, and just. Augh. Bah. I am nooooooooooot happy with this line of plotting, and would badly love to be proved wrong.

Re: Emma vs Regina over Henry

[ahuntsman]

I guess I kind of saw it coming?

Playing devil's advocate here, because I LOVE REGINA SO MUCH too. But the way I see it: the more crap Regina pulls on Storybrooke and Emma, the more Emma feels like she really needs to step in and take Henry out of the possibly harmful picture.

And this whole thing with MM and Sidney and the lying makes it pretty clear to Emma that, like she said (in harsher terms, a'course), Regina is not the best person to raise Henry - even if she has been doing a decent job all this time. (Because no one can deny that Henry hasn't been well taken care of.)

Emma is someone who's got no one either, and she's starting to make all these connections in Storybrooke - so now that she's got people to call family (people she loves) she's totally the sort to fight for them till the end. She has nothing else to lose.

And Sidney lying for Regina because he loves her, and Regina using that to her advantage, and Emma seeing that makes her angry. Seeing it from her POV, it's probably a little like, 'Okay, you've got someone who loves you; I've never had that until now. You're taking advantage of that to a terrible end and that just isn't right.'

I do agree that the way Emma said it to Regina wasn't selfless; it was certainly fueled by anger and a need to almost ... 'teach Regina a lesson', which shows that Emma could be tested to the dark or light side in the end of this, and that nothing - even fighting for what you love - is laid out in black and white. There are always shades of grey.

I would like to trust that the writers know what they're doing, and that all this will develop into more awesome complications.

Re: Emma vs Regina over Henry

[notinthebook]

She lives in my head, so I figure I ought to weigh in!

Regina has pushed and pushed and manipulated the hell out of every situation. She's clearly not a safe person for Henry to be around, and though Emma, Archie, and Graham have all pointed out that the only person likely to get hurt in a fight between the two of them is Henry, she's been playing dirty pool the whole time, and Emma is nooooooot a patient person.

Aside from all that, I think it is super important to keep in mind the speech Regina gave Emma when she first came to Storybrooke (complete with "no, you don't get to talk") where Henry is clearly referred to as a possession and which so closely parallels this one, with a few pertinent points ("All I care about is what happens to my kid."). I don't think it's an odd or unsurprising tack for Emma to take, and I also think she knows that Regina will not take her seriously unless she lays it on the line the way she did.

I figure Emma thinks of it like this: Regina keeps hurting people she loves, and they can't fight back for themselves, so she'll do the fighting for them. It seems far too complicated to boil it down to her just trying to punish Regina by taking away a toy: she's genuinely concerned for Henry's wellbeing because Regina is clearly an unbalanced, dangerous, vengeful person.

As for losing her temper...well, it's Emma. She does that kind of a lot. There's a reason why she tells Henry from the beginning that she's no saviour, and she spends the whole show struggling to make the right choices and trying to make them because of him. I don't think she's being held up as a paragon of virtue, except to Henry, who's a ten year old who sees the world in terms of good and evil, black and white. I think she's a damaged, difficult woman who's trying to be good because it's what's expected by someone so important to her.