farfar_aways | New Episode Discussions Post

Anything you thought bad or good about the Storybrooke plot line!

(Emma's things with Regina, Henry, and August? Mary Margaret's even further Snow Traits? All things August? Gold? David's scene with Regina? August & Gold working together? August& His Dad & His reveal things? Emma & August in the Foster home? Just to name a few examples.)

Edited 2012-04-30 01:23 (UTC)

EMMA.

WHAT. ARE. YOU. DOING.

SHE IS JUST MAKING ALL THE BAD DECISIONS in those last two minutes of the episode; this is not how you deal with Regina! This is not in your son's best interests! This is just BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD, EMMA. BAD.

I understand she's kind of at her wits end when she does what she does. I also get that she was just given the biggest bomb of information that pretty much would shake her entire system of beliefs and all those shields and walls she created from the start of her childhood to now. I get that.

AND YET.

I feel like this was a really good chance for her to show that she is a badass heroine, and ... she disappointed me. But I also know, from seeing those previews, that this is not the whole thing, so ... so I will just ... deal.

BUT EMMA.

(Though her scene with August/Pinocchio just made me want to HUG HER SO MUCH. HER FACEEEE. AUGH.)

The whole stealing your child thing never looks good anywhere at anytime. And what looked like the car possibly crashing again has me all wide eyed. Since the both of them should be able to leave, I don't why there would be car crashing.

I disapprove of Henry falling down for any reason.
(And I'm wondering if it will not be Apple related, too.)

This whole episode is about two different people (possibly three if my theory is right) railroading Emma in the very worst ways Emma can be. In all emotional and responsiblity and non-gentle fashion ways they can, which shoves her into what were usually early season sudden reactions.

I'm hoping there is some reason for these things that will happen in the next episode, but I'm a little bit frowny faces about a whole lot of stuff. I am trying to have faith because next week looks like it's going to be literally EPIC.

This whole episode is about two different people (possibly three if my theory is right) railroading Emma in the very worst ways Emma can be. In all emotional and responsiblity and non-gentle fashion ways they can, which shoves her into what were usually early season sudden reactions.

THIIIIIIIIIIS.

Emma's a loose cannon when we meet her. She assaults a guy (true, a fugitive, but he was under control at the time and she only knocked him out because he said something she didn't like), she chops down part of Regina's tree and threatens to come back for the rest. She acts on impulse and that impulse is to kick something in the face and then run. She only starts trying to be better because of Henry and, to a slightly different though not necessarily lesser extent, Mary Margaret. And she does start getting better, though she still prefers to do things her way and not by the book.

But then August takes her to the one spot guaranteed to make her feel abandoned and alone all over again, and shoves all of this sudden responsibility at her that she simply cannot handle, and all that good work unravels, bringing her straight back to the run mentality. And she takes Henry with her not because it's a good idea, but because she doesn't care about good and bad when she feels threatened.

I love her, but she's not necessarily a good person, not like Snow or James are good. She's a hero, but not an angel, and they've made that pretty clear.

Personally, I think Henry would be able to convince her it's a bad plan, but we'll see!

HOLY CRAP GUYS. GUYS. GUYS.

MARY MARGARETS SCENE WITH REGINA.

OR SHOULD I JUST SAY SNOW'S SCENE?

She's so clear. So precise. She makes accusations. Admits she is. Totally never says one word of anger or meanneness. Offers forgiveness, sympathy, sadness. Without backing down or being weak about it, or looking scared of Regina. And omg guys, guys, guys, I'm so in love with her.

~~Snow's~~ Mary Margaret's scene with Regina was SO AMAZING for ~~Snow~~ MM. (AHAHA I DID IT AGAIN, UNKNOWINGLY)

AND SO HEARTBREAKING FOR REGINA.

AUGH.

I just felt for both of them for their separate reasons.

MM's whole bit about forgiveness and forgiving Regina was so reminiscent of her letter that the Huntsman took to Regina, only this time she was able to say it to her face, which I thought was a really nice parallel.

Edited 2012-04-30 05:15 (UTC)

So heartbreaking. Regina has the right to look very confused. People are starting to act very much not like their SB character-sides should, and she doesn't know why. We still don't have her even having the idea that Emma is Snow & Charming's Daughter.

Only that her Curse & Manipluation of the entire Enchanted Forest (and extended unknown lands) is slipping. In massive, huge fashion, and it's threatening to take everything she's gotten because of this situation, in what ways she can around the emptiness we keep being reminded got put into her by enacting The Curse.

I waffle on how I'm supposed to feel about so much of this for Regina. Because I felt bad for her a little in this scene, and the one where Henry suddenly turns on her right after it. (Because Henry is so caustic compared to MM's acceptance and forgiveness.)

And then the whole David scene happened, sort slapping that original feeling. With the Blank Note & making a move on Charming. An destorying the mirror because he walks away from her, too. I just....feel very awkward about her.

Because sometimes they want her to be a real person, and then later they want her to just be the black construct in a blackn-n-white fairytale. Which is where I feel like they pinned her securely again in this episode. Because of her comments about moving Henry's Class, and all of David.

I have some serious bets that this Mary Margaret & Regina's scene will parallel The Evil Queen & Snow apple one from next time, too.

THIS WAS BEST. End scene. She's so perfectly clear and strong and truly forgiving.

My Knight in shining armor.
It's more like flannel.

Charming, man, you definitely had a gorgeous amount of charm today.
And? YOU MADE THE RIGHT DECISIONS THE WHOLE TIME THIS TIME.

EVEN IF MANIPULATED THE WHOLE WAY? (HOLY BLANK NOTE GUYS.)

He took care of Regina's car. He carried her groceries. He stayed for dinner, and did her dishes, when she looked sad and alone. Made sweet small friendly small talk the whole way. Totally took the step back when she made a move (HHHAAAAAomg my faith beyond that clip held out, thankgod), without making her feel awkward or accusing her.

I just. David, I want to give you a gold star.

As myself, and both sides of My Girl.

This was you being you.

Edited 2012-04-30 05:36 (UTC)

I AM SO PROUD OF YOU, DAVID.

Seriously, that boy is too honorable for his own good. There was never any doubt in my mind that he would do the right thing.

And between him and MM's obvious Snow Moment, I think it's safe to say the curse is starting to slip.

Maybe it's a silly side-comment, but I was hoping for more Archie in this episode?

I don't think it's silly at all. :P

But yeah, I was really thinking there'd be more Archie - though I love getting more of the cricket! And Geppetto reminding Jiminy of what happened just sort of broke me a little.

But yes... I got the impression that there should have been an Archie scene in there.

In my I Just Gotta Be Honest, Guys box for this week:

Uh. So. Someone fill me in. Was I supposed to still actually respect August at all at the end of that? Because I'm giving him the crazier O_o look now more than ever.

I mean, yeah, he's another kid who got shoved into events far over his head at far too young an age (just like Snow), but the whole of Adult August here weirded me out to the Nth Degree so many times. What happen to cool as cucumber enigma August?

Because that man was not in this episode, or in "The Return." I feel like we've gotten a completely different person suddenly now that we are at his story and not him being a mystery enigma making guest appearances to tantalize the audience.

Someone tell me what i'm supposed to be feeling. Because mostly i'm feeling he's the very last and worst person to have handled any of the information he had to tell her, any of the leading she needed to be led through. He dropped anvils on her. And we're supposed to be amazed she bolts.

I'm positively horrified in the whole handling of allof it.

Edited 2012-04-30 05:53 (UTC)

Someone tell me what i'm supposed to be feeling. Because mostly i'm feeling he's the very last and worst person to have handled any of the information he had to tell her, any of the leading she needed to be led through. He dropped anvils on her. And we're supposed to be amazed she bolts.

THIS SO MUCH OIAHSoaidhaosdihasodhi.

August is absolutely the worst person to handle the truth and all of its implications to someone as non-believing as Emma. I just - I just can't even.

I mean, we already know from 'Hat Trick' that Emma mmmmmay have started to have an inkling of, 'Oh god, what if Jefferson wasn't completely batshit' and Henry's little smiles and his '... yeah! Sure. Just borrow my book. I'll give you some time.' was perfect.

So, August coming in and pretty much BULLDOZING the truth into her ... well, yeah. NOT HELPFUL, PINOCCHIO.

In a way, I sort of think that was the part of the point. He's still very much that 7 year old boy that made the choice to run away ~~to the island of lost boys~~ from the orphanage.

To me that's why the blue fairy was exactly right - Emma needed her mother to take care of her and guide her. By making the hard choice to send Pinocchio (and save his son, I'm totally not blaming him) through Geppetto may very well have doomed them all.

*whimper*

Yeah, this can't end well...

The more I watch this episode the less I'm surprised by Henry's scene, and I was so surprised by it the first time I saw it in a sneak preview. Everyone's mouth is becoming a whole lot more open toward Regina and what she's done.

While I have to agree that all children rebel from their parents at some point, and that it can be laid off on that, too, I don't think that has anything to do with the motivation here. I had cause, in the shape of a visitor last night who got Once Blitzkrieg'd, to watch 1.07 and 1.08 again.

And to remember just how hard Henry took Graham's death. How much ownership he takes for being the thing that is instigated all the change, that is instigating all the reactionary actions His Mother The Mayor is taking against his bringing in His Mother The Savior to fix The Curse.

Just looking at the depth of his ownership of Graham's death, it does have to be stressful, for Henry, who believes whole and totally in the book, to suddenly watching his grandmother be the person in jeopardy. While never losing the faith that His Mother The Mayor is behind everything, especially as she keeps denying any truth to the storybook.

The relief he gets to have in Ms. Blanchard/his grandmother being safe coming out in that way? Still gives me a little pause. Oddly enough, the more I write this scene, the less I find myself surprised -- because? It's Henry acting like Emma. Refusing to be told lies or be ordered around, because of His Mother The Mayors fear that everything is slipping through her fingers.

Especially because the fact that last thing is happening, is everything he's been making try to happen since the show started. I just keep coming back to this scene. How stalwart, direct, and emotional he is. He's a tiny child, with the weight of the world and both his Mothers (who symbolize completely opposite things) on him.

We got Geppetto & Pinoccio's back story! All the things with the Blue Fairy and the tree, even more things Charming & Snow never knew! Anything and everything you can think of here!

Edited 2012-04-30 05:08 (UTC)

Not a big comment, but since The Blue Fairy was a big part in the last two episodes, and I watch "The Still Small Voice" (for TFL background) and "The Return" (for SB background) leading up to this one:

I could help hearing in this one, as Geppetto and The Blue Fairy made their deal:

Rumpelstiltskin: "YOU LIE!"
Blue Fairy: "We don't do that."

One episode ago, and yet, now we know how different this was supposed to be. Not only Emma was supposed to go. First: Snow and Charming were supposed to be saved. Second: Snow and Peter/August/Etc were supposed to be saved. Third: Snow and Emma were supposed to be saved.

Fourth: We end up with Emma and Peter/August/Etc.

And the only people who know all these changes or possiblities existed at all are The Blue Fairy, Geppetto, Peter/Pinnocio, and Jiminy. It's not lying but its definitely an interesting twist on all the information they presented the world with.

With the whole plan The Blue Fairy had made to save the whole of everyone.

(Also, someone else tell me they noticed this woman's shiny shiny shoes.)

Edited 2012-04-30 05:41 (UTC)

Our brand new FTL person & big reveal: Pinoccio! What do we have to say about him? (Both sides of him?) And because we finally got more of his story, what do we think of grown-up Gepeto and everything he does?

SO. MANY. FEELS.

Iiiii have never been a huge fan of August; I felt like his reveal was actually kind of anti-climactic tonight, even.

AND THEN.

AND THEEEEEEEEEEEN THE SCENE WITH HIM AND GEPETTO.

AUGH.

ALL THE FEELS.

Okay, so this wasn't exactly coherent and probably belongs in the FLAILING portion of this post, but.

Um. To make more sense of things ... seeing him leave Emma like that when they're both kidlets; idk. I just ... I don't get WHY he went and did that, though? I am still trying to digest ALL THE THINGS.

All the things. ALL OF THEM.

And I agree about the confusing feelings.

I keep feeling like this is a strange middle of the story episode, but it was suddenly there at the third to last episode. And I just. Don't know how to feel. We saw a lot of people, and a whole bunch of parents and kids dynamics, but I dont feel like we did much. Moved much. Things. I'm still missing words.

Yeah! Exactly!

I feel like this is noooooot a good way to start building up the conclusion to the episode.

ESPECIALLY WITH THE LAST MINUTE OR TWO OF THE EPISODE AGHOSIHOSDIHSODIH SO MUCH RAGE

But I will comment on that in another thread.

Yes, that scene. The orphanage I started wibbling - August & Marco?

Crying like a freaking baby in the middle of the cafeteria. *weep*

Don't tell me you don't have theories after several moments that were put out there in front of us this evening. Bring all your feels and questional subjectivity and flailing about things proved right or wrong or waffling or still dreaming in your noggin.

OH YEAH

And Emma's strange power of denial?

When she doesn't see August's wooden leg, instead seeing what she wants to see (flesh)?

UHHHHH

I am curious about people's theories on why Emma was unable to see what was supposed to be right in front of her eyes. Is this another form of Emma's magic, maybe?

OH OH OH OH THIS. THIS I LOVED.

I think this wraps very well into Jefferson comment "Everyone wants magic to solve their problems, but no one believes in magic" lecture, too. I think they've potentially, also, moved this into the realm of something I deeply, deeply love which (isn't "You gotta see it to believe it" but) is "You've got to believe, to be able to see."

At least maybe?

Edited 2012-04-30 05:59 (UTC)

It does make me wonder what else she isn't seeing (assuming that the camera has Emma-vision where we see things how she would see them)

Holycrap guys. The apple. The people. Emma & HENRY! Charming & Snow! The Evil Queen (several times over)! Everything! Everyone!

(Preview can be found here.)

My Comments form the chat:

what

what

Henry and Apple

And Daniel references!

SEE I TOLD YOU.

I NEED APPLE RED AS BLOOD LIKE I NEED AIR.

I'm going to love her even more if she bites the apple by choice, knowing exactly what it will do to her, and why Regina wants her to. And what she probably saves by sacrificing herself. AGAIN. >_>

OMG HENRY OMG

This needs no explanation! Shake it out!

Toss anything here you'd like!

YOU GUUUUUUYS
I want the AU where Pinocchio actually sticks with Emma.
Or the one where he refuses to go in the wardrobe and Snow and James both make it in.

Someone wrote AU fic where Snow and Emma are in the wardrobe instead and it is GORGEOUS. I need to find it again.

I've seen at least one variation on that, but now that we have the full circumstances of how canon shook out, I'm in favor of more.

WANT. Want to read all the reads. Want to fic things!

Oh oh oh - if/when you find it, do share!

I'd love to read it!

So there is this massive glaring empty space of non-New Canon enroaching on us at breakneck speed, as in two weeks we'll all be in the massive reeling space of our first Season Finale/Cliffhanger of Doom on May 13th. ~~Especially as our Season Two confirmation is still waffly at present, aside from writer/director interviews.~~

As Season One aired on October 23rd, we're looking potentially at a 5 month (1/2 May, June, July, August, September, 1/2 October) break period between now and then. It's my suggestion that we do a weekly rewatch from the beginning, if people are interested, and look at see what we might have missed, or might notice now that we know the whole first season information.

There are twenty-two episodes

We could do discussions posts again but with whole different topics. We could amass lists of things we still aren't sure of, and delve deeper into eposition on things we do have, discuss the new pieces we catch.

There's even a potential running around for having a hilarious "Diaires of the Character trapped inside the heads of SB characters," ala the Very Secret Lord of the Rings Hidden diaries, because I made a bad joke at Gabby while three or four episodes ago. Saying my characterization was

MM: Day Three. Hour Twelve. Still in a cell.

Then, laughed and said, no better yet, this:

((Snow: Still not the queen again yet.))

And it fell out into hilarious jokes about

~~Snow: CANNOT HAS HUSBAND. SO OUR HUSBANDS A LITTLE BIT OF AN IDIOT SOMETIMES. COULDN'T YOU JUST KISS HIM AGAIN TODAY FOR MMMMEEEE?~~

David: Still the Charmingest.
Regina: Still have the pppreecccious. I mean. Henry.
Gold: Queen Still Hasn't Wised Up yet Day 3,243
Emma: Still have The Very Best Princess Curls *bounces*

So these are just some ideas for the summer. Would you be interested in a weekly watch, whether groups together watching or watching alone, but with weekly discussion posts and silly things we toss up together? Do you have ideas for discussion posts or silly antic things like the above you'd love to share?

TOSS IT ALL OUT, I'D LOVE IDEAS FOR TIDING US THROUGH.

Edited 2012-04-30 03:01 (UTC)

Iiiiiii would possibly jump in on silly things? But I don't know how much I could be around for the watching bit because I AM MOVING IN JUNE and then later in the summer there will be the hunting of the apartment. (Also Warehouse 13 will almost certainly eat my brain again; it's good at that.)
But count me in-ish!

[Am honestly so excited for Syfy Summer to return to me, my dear. So. Excite. Eureka. Warehouse. Haven. Sanctuary, if. Dying for the Syfy Summer to sweep me up in its arms and out into their worlds.]

This is why it could totally be optional on the hows! where people could watch it in groups, or alone, or not at all, but there could be fun silly things in a weekly Sunday/Monday post like the normal Discussion Post. So it could have rewatch stuff and play stuff (like the secret diaries per the episode), etc.

I'd love to have more ideas for silly stuff. We could even toss in like a 100 word fic prompt or two for everyone each week and see hat might fall out from people. I have so many silly potential ideas for things that could be put in these, but I want other people's thoughts.

(Eureka's going right now, actually; I think they're only a couple episodes in. As for W13, I, uh... may not have watched the S3 finale yet, though I've read spoilers. I just. Yeeeeah. I have faith they'll set things right, but I can't go there until they do, I think; I'll stick to my 'HG WELLS BUILT A ROCKET' happy place.)

I wholeheartedly approve of the Secret Diaries thing! (Red's would have a lot of 'GO OUTSIDE, RUBY, YOU DUMBASS.') And fic things, and other shenanigans.

I am totally in-ish!

I don't know how active I'll be either, considering my summer's about to become PACKED with things and I want to make sure I maximize the amount of RP threads I can before heading to Japan in the fall ... but yeah! If I'm around and things are happening, I am totally there.

I AM JUST SO

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK OF THIS EPISODE, REALLY

NEED TO DIGEST

ALSO: how CUTE is the kid who plays Pinocchio? AGH, I just want to hug him FOREVER.

THE MOST ADORABLE FRECKLES OF ADORABLE EVER. OMG.

I'm still teary eyed.

No crying, thankfully.

Just... GAH

So many feelings.

While I was sorting through my Emma & Henry feelings from this episode, before I even had them fully sorted out, I fell on a Trope/Theme (/whatever you want to call it) that riles me. If the news is allowed to question the whole pervasive notion of True Love being used too often and for too many people (~~which you can't in fairytales~~) then I can have massive issues with Helpless Child/Children Syndrome.

Whether through the fault of their parents/guardians or actions around their parents/guardians that the parents/guardians can't control or put the children in, lets just start listing how much more pervasive this trope is even than True Love:

Rumpelstiltskin → Baelfire

Cora → Regina
Regina → Snow
Regina/Snow/Charming/Blue Fairy/Geppetto/August/Foster System → Emma
Regina & Emma → Henry

Parents → Jiminy
Jiminy → Gepetto
Gepetto → Peter

Granny → Red & Peter
Mother & Father → James & Not!James
Father → Hansel & Gretal

Which is just the ones off the top of my head tonight. I have a feeling this is going to get to me, though it's also another part of the whole idea of every fairytale character needing adversity to come into their own. But it's a whole lot of Helpless Children of varying ages from like six to early twenties.

Edited 2012-05-01 22:19 (UTC)

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